So I take it that, on that note, you'll drop your opposition to gay couples marrying? :-)

Scott,

:-) I somehow doubt it!...

...maybe Melanie will argue in favour of making marriage a sentence for crime committed by non-married men in order to reform them...?

David and SM (good intials eh?)

Now now girls, you should be grateful that Melanie opens up so many threads of opportunity for the Gay Rights lobby on this blog. Two or three on the go at the same. Or do you think they are traps?

Frank-

As a member of the gay rights lobby - i suppose -I'd rather have a respectful exchange of views with you than a slanging match, we both might learn something. But do you really have to persist with the silly insults e.g. SM being 'good initials' or that one in the thread about the police force, about 'scents', the 'now now girls' etc etc

Frank,

"Now now girls"

Said no doubt in Kenneth-Williams-style-carry-on-camped-up-nasal-voice.

Please realize, dear Frank,that we gays have moved on since what are perhaps your fond memories of exchanges with, let's say, others from our fraternity, in Queensway, in the 50s.

"Melanie opens up so many threads of opportunity for the Gay Rights lobby on this blog."

Yes, I too have been wondering why she does this. Could it be that she sees us - our rights, our viewpoints, our lifestyles etc - as encapsulating - a litmus test perhaps? - her concerns about modern society (particularly victim culture, freedom of speech, religious ascendancy, Blairite toadying to the latest kewl-Britania trends etc).

Perhaps she sees us as a good way of provoking debate and discussion.

Maybe she is looking at how we respond in order to be able to re-adapt our arguments to her own political philosophy. Just like I occasionally read newspapers whose political agenda I disagree with in order to recoil in mock-shock horror and re-deploy the arguments against those who advance them.

Who knows? Short of Melanie stepping in and telling us, we could speculate for ever.

However, if she was looking for proof that we are all intent on silencing her she will not have found it on this web site - where by far the most extreme comments expressed in threads with gay themes have been by those who oppose us.

Well said, David

Thanks for keeping a glossary of my silly one- liners Matt. If you keep banging the drum it will get a long as Bob Monkhouse's archive. But not as lucrative, I'm afraid. Because it's just banter. Lighten up. You tee 'em up, I'll wood them down the fairway. But just for fun as I assure you I'm not looking for a hole-in-one. Just refer yourself back to the first two posts on this thread. Did you and David expect to have the thread to yourself after that lovey-dovey opener?
This is a public forum, as you well know, which is why you step up to the plate. (Sorry, I've changed metephors now).

spelled metaphor wrong too, sri!

Matt,

Re: you know who

do you think if we ignore him, he'll go away...?

Frank -

Okay - I'll lighten up! But how often have I heard the defence from employers who have been sued for discrimination that it was all 'just banter'? This is a public forum, and I can choose to leave the site. What about in a school or workplace where the 'banter' is incessant and one cannot walk away from it without consequence. I am - I think - a reasonably 'straight-acting' gay man, whatever that means ( and not that that's in any way 'better' than a gay man who isn't), and I've got a beard now, so most people don't pick up that I'm gay unless I tell them. But when I was at school I was constantly bullied and most of that consisted of jokes about how effeminate I was perceived to be. I know, I know, poor me - but it took me a long time to get over it and the lack of self-confidence that resulted really did mean that I had an unhappy time as a teenager and young adult. But frankly, your jokes are more Bobby Davro than the lovely Bob!

Matt,

sorry to hear about your experiences during school days. I have heard similar things from friends so often. I think I was relatively fortunate - I loved primary school and the sixth form but hated the bit in the middle at my all-boys grammar school: it was often a blur of experiences all running into eachother in which my inner thoughts contrasted violently with the world around me and I dreaded growing up as I thought I would never be able to fit in anywhere, do anything useful, or find any kind of happiness or contentment. I always fought back against my grammar school tormentors but averaged a physical fight per day for one particularly miserable academic year. Of course, there was no one to talk to and I lied about the causes of bruising, concussion, why hair was missing from my head, how my school books and equipment were often vandalised etc etc.

I think maybe these experiences have made us more genuinely compassionate as people and, in my case and perhaps yours too (reading between the lines) all has turned out well (sometimes I have to pinch myself and ask..."How could everything turned out so well?"...I won't say anymore on this because it's not directly relevant to the subject and I don't want to provide any material for certain people on this site to use to 'prove' how 'damaged' we are to make unpleasant jokes..

I'm not gay myself (although part of my opposition to marriage relates to the homophobic nature of artificially prizing one relationship above all others - what is Melanie so scared of?).
As one half of a cohabiting couple, I never need to question whether my partner is committed to being with me. Hence I don't have to spend much time thinking about the nature of our relationship either way. However, when I read what Melanie has written, I actually feel proud not to be married. I am proud not to be reinforcing such narrow-minded and harmful "ideals" about where we find the right people to hold together our society. I'm also proud to be able to disentangle statistics (does Melanie seriously believe men are more likely to commit crimes BECAUSE they're not married? Hmm).
I'd rather that the future belonged to my bastard illegitimate children than to hate mongers and the kind of people who mindlessly attempt to appropriate sole responsibility for social cohesion just because they fancy a bit of a party. And it will. So stop fighting it, Melanie.