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December 21, 2003
War on terror
Libya's decision to come clean about its WMD programme and dismantle it is a clear vindication of the much maligned American belief that victory in Iraq would put pressure on other rogue states to clean up their act. It was obviously no coincidence that Col Gaddafi opened up a dialogue just after the invasion of Iraq, and decided to put his hands up a few days after Saddam was pulled out of his hole. As an unnamed minister says in the Sunday Telegraph:'It demonstrates that change can be brought about by standing tough. There is no question that this change of heart by Gaddafi was brought about by the fact that the US and Britain were seen to be standing up to and called Saddam Hussein's bluff.' Quite. Meanwhile, interesting take in the Sunday Herald, which says the Libyan move also busts an axis of terror between Libya, Iran and North Korea, which the paper says had a secret deal to develop a nuclear weapon. Nor is this all. As the Washington Post points out, Iran has agreed to surprise inspections of its nuclear facilities, and Syria has seized $23.5 million believed to be destined for al Q'aeda. Of course, all of this may be window dressing, and we may find in due course that these countries are still up to their old tricks. But it's progress -- and it sure as hell wouldn't have happened if the US hadn't dumped the old corrupt realpolitik in the garbage.
Posted by melanie at December 21, 2003
Comments
Many guest commentators on the BBC are fond of suggesting that this act of contrition by Libya has been a victory for "diplomacy" over "militarism", "multilateralism" over "unilateralism", the "State Department" over the "neocons", etc. Of course, this is utterly false. In part, the capitulation is a result of Gaddafi's increasing alienation with the Arab League and pan-Arab objectives but primarily, Libya is surrendering her WMD programme because of the resolve shown by the US and the UK backed by the demonstration of overwhelming force in Iraq. It makes perfect sense that Gaddafi, the archetypal terrorist, would be the first to see the game is over. Posted by: Henry S. at December 21, 2003 06:44 PMIn celebration of the Holiday I have spent an enjoyable morning listening to Bach's "Christmas Oratorio" performed by the RIAS Kammerchor. http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/Bach___Christmas_Oratorio.html This performance gets one to thinking of Western civilization and dead, old white men who, along with their women, made the good life as we know it possible. Now RIAS is an acronym for "Rundfunk im amerikanischen Sektor (Radio in the American Sector) which was founded in 1946 as the "voice of the free world" and broadcast into the old GDR (German "Democratic" Republic.) The GDR would often jam the broadcasts, but some very nice programs got through nevertheless. Each week, the chorus piece from Verdi's Aida, "Chor der Gefangenenen und Sklavinnen" (Song of the (male) Prisoners and (female) Slaves) would be broadcast. It still brings tears to ones eyes and makes the hair on the back of the neck standup when one reflects on the irony— that of Egypt having taken Ethiopian slaves via a war, one of whom is the princess Aida. When one thinks of how many decades it took for the GDR and Eastern Europe to become free, never mind prosperous, then one can recognize that we have our work cut out for us in Iraq or any Islamic country that we want to "reform." Despite the wealth and prosperity of "west" Germany, the East more than a decade after re-unification is still in terrible shape— comparatively speaking. Given that the culture of "east" and "west" Germany is Western and Judeo-Christian in its base, one can only speculate how, a culture based in Islam can possibly bring forth or develop true democracy, freedom and secularism—given that all of these are against the tenets of Islam, which postulates that there is no "free will" for humanity only "submission" to Allah and the immutable word via the Qu'ran. America gave the Western world the freedom and resultant prosperity it enjoys today by spending its blood and treasure to defeat both fascism and communism. I am not convinced that defeating radical Islam is possible in any Islamic country without an Islamic Reformation—first. Such a Reformation must clearly come from Muslims and cannot be forced by non-Muslims. Nevertheless, hope springs eternal in the human breast. Thus, we must hope (and pray) that the challenge brought by the US to Islamic terror supporting states will be seen as frightening enough to stop or at least mitigate their activities. One can only hope that Lybia's new "insight" is not another form of "taquieh" (lying to the "infidel" to save Islam.) The Qu'ran does state that treaties with the "idolaters" can be broken. Christians are seen as "idolaters" because they worship the cross and statues:
It is important that Islamic scholarship be encouraged so that the literal origins of the Qu'ran may be disputed. Just as Biblical scholarship has made people less dogmatic and more open to interpretations of scripture, so we would hope Islamic scholarship will do the same for Muslims. "Radio free Islamia" might be a good thing as well. Can't hurt to let them listen to "Chor der Gefangenenen und Sklavinnen." ;-) It ain't over 'till it's over! Not in our lifetimes I fear. . . Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 21, 2003 07:20 PMBBC News last night gave the credit for Libya's action to Nelson Mandela, and perish the thought that any other rogue state might follow the Libyan example. Seems we have a Tale of Two Colonels. Be smart and follow Col Gaddaffi, or be stupid like Saddam and expect a visit to your rathole from Col James Hickey and the lads from the 4th Infantry Division. Posted by: Acer at December 21, 2003 11:09 PMU.S. FINDS SCUD Cs, NUKE CENTRIFUGES IN LIBYA
Officials said a British and U.S. team found that Libya had constructed a centrifuge that was enriching uranium. Several other centrifuges were also found as part of what they said was a complete infrastructure for the production of nuclear weapons. . . " http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2003/december/12_22_1.html So much for US intelligence! US and Western "intelligence"—that is becoming an oxymoron. What the HELL do we pay a fortune in taxes for the likes of the CIA? Lili They were probably surprised because the US does not use centrifuges but the gaseous process instead to produce HEU. The European entity (Anglo-Dutch-German) is the leader in centrifuge technology and the Russians use it too I think....the Pakistanis stole it and replicated it, which is probably where Iran/Korea/Libya got it from.
Anyway, it is a good decision for all of us......it was of no benefit to Libya and wasted capital Posted by: Romulus at December 22, 2003 12:58 PM"the East more than a decade after re-unification is still in terrible shape— comparatively speaking. Given that the culture of "east" and "west" Germany is Western and Judeo-Christian in its base" Lilith,the "culture" of E. Ger. was warped by 2 generations of marxism,I suspect it will take a generation or 2 for "east" and "west" to fully re-intergrate culturally economicaly and socially. Posted by: M. at December 22, 2003 02:02 PM"it sure as hell wouldn't have happened if the US hadn't dumped the old corrupt realpolitik in the garbage." Vindication of US policy, what a crock, It has demonstrably done the opposite! America can now thank Bush for the fact that they will have to spend Christmas at their 2nd highest terror level and the highest since 9/11, Afghanistan is on the brink of collapse, they are getting their butts kicked out of Iraq, and Gaddafi can now get old and rich off the back of US oil companies. Well done USA, another blow for freedom. Oh go eat some tofu ya hippy. "Lilith,the "culture" of E. Ger. was warped by 2 generations of marxism,I suspect it will take a generation or 2 for "east" and "west" to fully re-intergrate culturally economicaly and socially." That is precisely my point, M. If Westerners can't "get it together" after more than a decade of freedom, how will Iraq do? I fear that you are correct, Mike. But, do you have a better alternative? Everyone criticizes the Bush policies, but has no other alternatives. The EU talking heads sure don't have any. I'll believe it when I see it! Muslims are known for deliberately not telling the truth to "infidels." It is not wise to deal with the likes of Gaddafi. He is an Islamic terrorist. He committed his crimes in the name of Islam. Terrorists belong in prison for life! If he were resigning and being put on trial I might feel more charitable. P**s on the Islamic terrorists! Cut them off and let them rot. The snowflakes are dancing. It's a beautiful world. Lili
There are plenty of alternatives, Backing the International Criminal Court would be a good start. That would be a perfect place to try Saddam, in a forum could be seen as legitimate whether it happens on Iraqi soil or not. Reform of the UN to make it democratic, abolition of the permanent members, and the power to remove people like Saddam by force if that is the democratic will of the world. In this form, if the invasion of Iraq had the backing of the world, it would also have had UN backing, legitimacy, and resources. The world does need order imposed upon it, but it should not be left to the strongest guy on the block to impose their own brand of justice. It should involve laws, rules and transparent justice. The Bush administration is actively seeking to destroy all of the above because they want to impose their own brand of justice, unchallenged. If America put half the effort, and resources into these measures that it has put into the war on terror you would see a long term reduction in violence in the world, rather than the inevitable increase we are seeing now. Posted by: Mike at December 23, 2003 02:36 PMMike: "...in a forum could be seen as legitimate whether it happens on Iraqi soil or not." Why, exactly, should we concern ourselves with appearing "legitimate" to nations that completely disagree with what we are trying to do, and the way we are doing it? And don't give me that BS about mending relationships. Those bridges were burned long ago, if ever they truly existed. 9-11 only made it obvious to everyone. "Reform of the UN to make it democratic, abolition of the permanent members, and the power to remove people like Saddam by force if that is the democratic will of the world." I will not stand idly by while the needs of my country are suborned to a "democratic" vote in a dictators' club. And no matter how you spin it, that is exactly what the UN is, and you know it. "The world does need order imposed upon it, but it should not be left to the strongest guy on the block to impose their own brand of justice. It should involve laws, rules and transparent justice." Ahh, I see now. It's not that the US is being "imperialist" that bothers you, it's that we're doing it with an agenda and goals that are counter to your own. Glad to see you're honest enough to admit that much. Tom K: “Why, exactly, should we concern ourselves with appearing "legitimate" to nations that completely disagree with what we are trying to do, and the way we are doing it?” "The world does need order imposed upon it, but it should not be left to the strongest guy on the block to impose their own brand of justice. It should involve laws, rules and transparent justice." Dear Mike, that is what happens in the world, in the natural world—the strongest, the most fit, the most capable is the one who gets to be leader of the pack, king of the road or the emperor with no clothes on. "The Bush administration is actively seeking to destroy all of the above because they want to impose their own brand of justice, unchallenged. First, GW's administration is being challenged in the courts now. There is plenty of opposition in the US to the more draconian policies of this administration. Second, I agree would could do better things than wage war with the money. However, the nations who are sponsoring Islamic terror could also do better things with the BILLIONS of $ they spend promoting Islamic terrorism! If one looks at it in that light, then perhaps our blood and treasure are better spent. "My concern is to forge more global institutions that hold more countries like Saddam's Iraq to account. Institutions which are not concerned with my agenda, but which represent democratically represent everybody's agenda. " The problem with that ideal is that most countries are not democratic. Most don't give a damn about their people's freedoms, their well being or their nations' prosperity. Do you really believe that if the permanent member status is abolished that the despotic nations of the world would not band together to wipe out democracy and civilization as we know it? They would vote themselves all kinds of perks and the UN would be an even greater failure than it is today because the West would cease to pay the bills. When there is a Reformation in Islam then I might feel a bit more comfortable about countries such as the Arab states having a greater say. When they hold their own leaders to account, THEN I shall believe something is possible. But, currently, Arab/Islamic nations support terrorism with their despotic, theocratic governments. After all, the Arabs did NOTHING about Saddam. Other nations such as those in Africa or S. America or Asia don't exactly have great freedom and human-rights records either. I do believe that Saddam should be tried in an international forum because his crimes were not just against the Iraqi people, they were against the whole world. In the mean time, I will continue to believe that the US and the other Western nations are the greatest force for good and human progress on the planet. Too bad, that many of the other Western nations are not meeting their responsibilities because under the current administration, the US does not play nicely with others. Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 24, 2003 04:23 PMSnowbound I found this. The gut-splitter chuckle of the day. Happy Christmas! ========== "For the past several months, Al-Qa'ida operatives have been debating the organization's attacks in Saudi Arabia. There has been no dispute over striking American or Western targets around the world - only regarding attacks within the kingdom. Furthermore, while some favor striking only at "Crusader" – namely American – targets in Saudi Arabia, others are willing to include the Saudi regime and security forces as targets. . . . . . ."Others said we had to preserve the security of this base and of this country [i.e. Saudi Arabia], from which we recruit the armies, from which we take out the young people, and from which we receive [financial] backing. It must therefore remain safe. . . . . . "It is also true that we must take advantage of this country [Saudi Arabia] because it is the PRIMARY SOURCE OF FUNDS for most Jihad movements, and it has some degree of security and freedom of movement. But we must strike a balance between this and America's invasion of the Islamic world and its hobbling of the Jihad movement and even of other Islamic movements…" [1] . . . Another Strike in the U.S. Will Restore Sympathy for Al-Qa'ida Al-Qa'ida members deny that Muslims have been killed in their bombings in Saudi Arabia, but recognize that the regime has managed, via the media, to convey such a message – which has damaged Al-Qa'ida's image. . . . . .In the interview, Abu Hajer said: "We have not carried out a single attack. All the operations that took place were defensive operations. The brothers try as much as possible to avoid clashes with the military and the security forces. Nevertheless, the government is escalating its war, and is trying to uproot me, uproot you, and uproot all Islamists… I have sworn to purge the Arabian Peninsula of the polytheists. We were born in this country, and we will fight in it against the Crusaders and against the Jews until we remove them or taste what was tasted by Hamza bin Abd Al-Muttalib [i.e. martyrdom]…" [5] . . . . ."Since our brothers in Al-Qa'ida are preoccupied with waging war on the Crusaders, and since it has become clear from their repeated communiqués that they are not attacking the internal security apparatus, we have decided to relieve them of this important [RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION] and to purge the land of the two holy places of the [Arab] agents, freeing [Al-Qa'ida] to purge it of the Crusaders… Strike At America So America Cannot Strike at Saudi Arabia
. . . ."No, they would not leave us alone. As a first step, they would try to secure the oil fields, in accordance with an old plan. They would not stand idly by. But the question is whether they would be able to do this in the event that the regime completely collapses and anarchy prevails. I doubt this very much. If they become more and more entangled in the Iraqi quagmire, and if we strike painful blows in America, those blows will deprive them of their ability to focus on [Saudi Arabia]… What arouses real concern is the acts of their allies the Shiites in the event of the collapse [of the Saudi regime]. This would be an extremely grave situation requiring great thought and preparation of alternatives by the Mujadiheen . . . . . . "Al-Qa'ida is absolutely opposed to this, and states: The world order must be removed from the region and defeated, first of all militarily. Then, the Islamic state must be reestablished, in accordance with the Islamic regime. This means that we will control our fate, rule over ourselves, and control our resources. More generally, we will rebuild our lives according to our foundations and our principles. The experience [of an Islamic state] is real, and it existed 1,300 years ago. The peoples of the East ruled themselves and lived according to their own rules long before the West was in the region. There is nothing to prevent the revival of these rules, which are based on the Koran and the Sunna… . . ."No political program. has a chance of succeeding if we do not defeat the West, militarily and culturally, and remove it from Muslim countries. Then, it will not be difficult for the nation, with the help of its tremendous resources, to rebuild life according to religious Islamic principles. We will become the masters of the world, as the world's economic fate depends on us because we have the resources the world needs and all the elements of controlling the world are in our hands. What we are lacking is to live free and to rule ourselves by ourselves, cut off from the West and its agents." . . . . .Attiya Allah also spoke of the fate Al-Qa'ida has planned for the Arab countries: "The [Arab] nation-states… are a Western model that the West created to allow it to build up its general colonialist plan for the Islamic East. These countries have no religious foundation, and have neither a right to exist nor a popular base. They were forced upon the Muslim peoples, and their survival is linked to the Western forces that created them. Therefore, the general aim of the Jihad and the Mujahideen is to strike at the foundations and infrastructure of the Western colonialist program or at the so-called world order – or, to put it bluntly, to defeat Crusaders in the battle that has been going on for over a century. Their defeat means, simply, the elimination of all forms of nation-states, such that all that remains is the natural existence familiar to Islam – the regional entity under the great Islamic state. . . . 'The More Martyrs' Blood Shed, the Greater the Light of Jihad' . . ."Even if we assume that, Allah willing, the sparking of conflicts will lead to painful results in the short term and perhaps in the intermediate term, in the long term the changes happening here will be the key to the cleansing of the entire Islamic world, to ridding ourselves of the colonialists, and to removing the Crusaders – so that we can then prepare for the great conflicts with them in the battles to come, including the decisive war with the Byzantines of which the Prophet spoke… [9] Full article with references here: http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP63203 =========== "Al-Qa'ida Magazine?" MAGAZINE!? ROTFLMAO!!!!! Perhaps the "true believers" will give up the "magazine" and the trappings of technology once the "crusaders" are all subdued into the 7th century. Ya think? The "Byzantines" BYZANTINES, Hellloooo??? Oh, oh, my gut is hurting, I am laughing so hard. Check out the "magazine's" past issues: http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1017284/posts Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 25, 2003 12:18 AM"In the mean time, I will continue to believe that the US and the other Western nations are the greatest force for good and human progress on the planet." What other western nations would you include in this axis of good Lili? Posted by: bernie at December 26, 2003 11:15 PM"What other western nations would you include in this axis of good Lili?"
That does not mean that "everything" they do is "good" BTW. Just that they are a force for good. Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 27, 2003 09:41 PMMy only fear is that, indeed, the rogues ARE still up to their old tricks. Already we have Syria calling for the destruction of all WMDs, with the obvious focus on taking the nuclear deterrent from Israel. If these characters can remake themselves into an Islamic "peace initiative," and if others buy into it, it may be the beginning of the end for Israel. Israel must never disarm; that is the intent of the deathsome Islamic regime. Posted by: Mike Weaver at December 28, 2003 03:41 AM"Israel must never disarm; that is the intent of the deathsome Islamic regime." EXACTLY! You cannot trust a Muslim to abide by a treaty. It is written in the Qu'ran that they can break these: • Breaking agreements with "Infidels" Idolaters 009.001 --- Christians are considered "idolaters" despite being "people of the book," because they pray to statues and crosses. I don't believe a word any of these people say! The agreements they sign won't be worth the paper on which they are written. Note that Iran has asked for help from the "infidel" world community including the "Great Satan" —except of course Israel— for the earthquake tragedy. Funny, how the "infidel" is good enough to help the Muslims whenever they need technical or medical assistance or when they need saving, as in Bosnia. But, they would rather let their people die or suffer than have help from the "Zionist entity." They have even asked for sniffer dogs. Dogs! Those creatures that the Iranian mad mullahs were "arresting" last year. Tens of thousands dead and injured ought to keep their minds off nukes for a little while. God works in mysterious ways.
Mike: "My concern is to forge more global institutions that hold more countries like Saddam's Iraq to account. Institutions which are not concerned with my agenda, but which represent democratically represent everybody's agenda." Presumably you'll be mouthing this nonsense when the Islamists come calling for you (or your children). You can forge institutions with softies in Europe, it's sort of fun in a less than serious way. The Islamists however deal out and need to be given rougher treatment. Until you see this you may as well be smoking dope (and maybe that's how you would rather continue). Posted by: JK at December 30, 2003 04:05 AMOne of US' hints was also intended to the real monster: http://www.geocities.com/arabracismplusjihad/SaudiArabia http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansarelies Posted by: Marco at January 1, 2004 06:25 AMCan't think of a more deserving recipient of Islam's tolerant benevolence and good will. Nothing like seeing the monster devour its creator. Posted by: Lilith at January 2, 2004 06:49 AM |
