|
« War on Iraq
Main Hillary gets it right, shock » |
December 08, 2003
War on Iraq
The inevitable doubts have surfaced. The Independent reports that the Iraqi occupation authorities are sceptical about Col al Dabbagh's claim that he was the source of the 45 minute claim and that it was correct. However, the 'question marks' round the story are themselves somewhat vague, and cover issues openly aired in the Sunday Telegraph's story. For example, this acknowledged that the alleged weaponry was primitive; and al Dabbagh also volunteered that he didn't know whether the WMD in question was chemical or biological. So what? Why are these, according to the Independent, supposed to be killer objections? The Sunday Telegraph did not treat this as a marginal story of doubtful provenance. It gave it the front-page splash, a two-page inside piece and a leader. Con Coughlin's inside piece suggests why the paper has taken it so seriously. Coughlin describes the lengths to which he went, acting on an educated hunch (he is the author of a book about Saddam), to track down al Dabbagh, who did not want to be interviewed and whose house was attacked before he was. Al Dabbagh was a spy working for the west, and a member of the Iraqi National Accord group of exiles. One of my correspondents suggests this means he is a compromised source. Why? Surely it means he was trusted by western inteligence services as someone whose previous information had been shown to be reliable -- precisely what the spooks told Hutton. If this man is to be believed, what he told Coughlin lifts the veil a little further on what is happening now in Iraq and confirms the suspicion that Saddam is not only behind the continuing terror attacks but planned them all along (which makes sense): 'Saddam was well aware that Iraq could not possibly win a conventional military conflict against a US-led coalition, and in early 2002 he gave orders for large quantities of weapons to be hidden at strategic locations throughout the country. "The battle with America is inevitable," the document states. "What is of paramount importance is how to sustain the continuation of war after occupation." To that end Saddam ordered that 30 per cent of the country's weaponry be hidden at secret locations which were to be marked by Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) co-ordinates. These were to include guns, rocket-propelled grenades, anti-tank weapons and Strella surface-to-air missiles (such as the one fired at the DHL cargo plane last month). The only people who knew the precise location of all the arms caches were Saddam, his son Qusay and Abid Hamid Mahmud, his private secretary, since captured by coalition forces. "Saddam Hussein said that if any of these weapons were found by ordinary Iraqi people then the head of the military unit would be hanged immediately," said Lt Col al-Dabbagh'. He also gave quite a detailed account about the '45-minute' weapons: 'The weapons themselves were finally deployed at his own unit towards the end of last year. "They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh explained. "They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which, because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used these weapons we had to wear gas masks." According to information he learnt subsequently from his military colleagues, the weapons were made at factories at Habbaniyah, al-Nahrawan, Nabbai and al-Latifia. 'Saddam's officials also gave elaborate instructions on how to use the weapons. Because of their limited range, those responsible for firing them were to dress in civilian clothes and drive in civilian vehicles with yellow number plates. "Each military unit was given two four-wheel drive Isuzu cars," said Lt Col al-Dabbagh. "We were not allowed to use them and they had to be kept in good condition." If the war reached a critical stage and Iraq's forces were in danger of being overrun, then designated officers would be given the task of driving the vehicles towards coalition positions and firing the weapons. We were instructed that when we got the order we must use these cars and use the secret weapon. We were also told that if any of us discussed this weapon with any of our colleagues we would be hanged immediately." 'He believes that the only reason these weapons were not used during Operation Iraqi Freedom last spring is that the bulk of the Iraqi army refused to fight for Saddam. "The West should thank God that the Iraqi army decided not to fight," he said. "If the army had fought for Saddam, and used these weapons, there would have been terrible consequences." Lt Col al-Dabbagh has no idea what became of the weapons because shortly before hostilities commenced he was recalled to Iraq's air defence headquarters in Baghdad, although he believes that most of them were taken away by Saddam's Fedayeen and hidden away. 'He did, however, see a group of Fedayeen attempt to use one of the warheads against an American position on the outskirts of Baghdad on April 6. "They were going to use this weapon, but then they realised that they would kill lots of Iraqis who did not have masks, so they put them in their cars and drove off. "Convinced that the weapons are still hidden in Iraq, Lt Col al-Dabbagh doesn't believe any of them will be found until Saddam is caught or killed. "All the people who worked on these weapons have either escaped or disappeared. Only when Saddam is captured will these people talk openly about these weapons. Then they will reveal where they are."' To repeat -- it is certainly possible that this is a scam: that al Dabbagh isn't what he says he is, or that he is but his information is or was rubbish, or that he is playing some kind of double-double spookery game. Who knows. But surely other media outlets, normally not known to be backward in the credulity department when it suits their anti-war agenda, might at least investigate?
Posted by melanie at December 8, 2003
Comments
Melanie wrote: "Al Dabbagh was a spy working for the west, and a member of the Iraqi National Accord group of exiles. One of my correspondents suggests this means he is a compromised source. Why?" I only suggested that his information is questionable. He has also asserted that Saddam gave the order that everything upto and including nuclear weapons should be employed in the event of major military breakthroughs by the allies, and I think we can all concur that he never, thankfully, had them. And having been in the employ of western intelligence sources, it speaks to his ability to give impartial evidence on Iraqi NBC capability. The intelligence services of my government and yours direly would like some positive testimony in this regard. That he has had dealings with them does not add to his bona fides. It detracts from them. The continual beating of the "dead horse" is really bizarre. The war is over! Saddam is gone and good riddance! GET OVER IT! Now, we have to worry about the terrorists. That problem should be everyone's concern and focus not just one of the US. It is a TOTAL WASTE of energy and resources to continue to dredge up the "no WMD," found issue. SO WHAT! Saddam certainly had them, given that he used these against his own people. He certainly was trying to get more including nuclear. Additionally, Saddam supported Islamic terrorism by paying $25,000 to each family of a Palestinian suicide bomber. It is very disturbing that the people and governments of the world who will not meet their responsibilities with respect to stabilizing Iraq and stopping the proliferation of Islamic terrorism. That, it seems to me, is the responsibility of the WHOLE world and not just the US! Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 8, 2003 03:38 PMIf there is one thing the anti-war campaigners will never do, it's admit to being wrong. Posted by: GrimReaper at December 8, 2003 07:24 PMWho is Lilith talking to? Melanie? Myself? Does Lilith want Melanie to shut up about WMD? Because it wasn't myself who brought it up. I only *replied* with my observations about the claims of the Iraqi fellow that was brought up by Melanie. And as I stated earlier, I do believe that Saddam had WMD, but this is not the evidence that we need to get behind publically, because it seems very tenuous, and will be ripped apart by the anti-war crowd. GrimReaper, I am not so sure the anti-war campaigners were wrong. After all, war is a terrible thing. But, the fact is that they have not come up with a better alternative. They continue to beat a dead horse. War is "over"— now something even worse is going on. They have no better solution for that either. I notice that none of them are volunteering to go to Iraq and help stabilize the place. "Everything" is not about YOU, Talisman. If you cannot figure out who I am talking ABOUT not TO, then that is really too bad. LOL Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 9, 2003 03:15 AMSo you were just generally up on your soapbox, waving your hands around in frantic gesticulation and shouting to the heavens. Okay, thanks for the clarification. Posted by: Mike Talismann at December 9, 2003 05:28 AM"So you were just generally up on your soapbox, waving your hands around in frantic gesticulation and shouting to the heavens." Strange, what some people make out of a post. You certainly have a wild imagination. You haven't been mucking about with raisins have you, Mr. T? Perhaps you've exhausted yourself? ;-) Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 9, 2003 08:20 AMI like raisins actually. They are just bursting with fruity freshness. Who cares about WMD ? Bush said it was his potential to build them that was the threat....and in 5 years it could be too late. Blair hyped up the imminent threat to frighten his party. The fact is Saddam violated the UN ceasefire just as North Korea has done. What is the point of a ceasefire if they continue arming themselves ? The Allies should have crushed Saddam and drawn the Iraqi Army into a major killing zone to eradicate it and any survivors should have been put in huge camps in the desert until screened for a new Army. Rumsfeld wanted to do it all on the cheap like the A-Team....a sort of Blitzkrieg among friends. Posted by: Romulus at December 10, 2003 07:44 AMRomulus, if you were a chick, I would be flirting with you at this point. I like how your brain functions man. Posted by: Mike Talismann at December 10, 2003 10:17 AMThanks Mike Talisman, I like your posts....now Lilith is the amusing one, but they say to err is human; and to forgive is divine.......so I am almost condemned to forgive her these errant ways and aberrant thoughts....... Posted by: Romulus at December 10, 2003 11:59 AMTruly you are both wise and benevolent. As well as witty and insightful. If you haven't already got a blog, get one and get writing. If you do have one already, whack a link up. And don't stand on formality, just call me Mike. Only Dave-the-wonder-dunce calls me by my full name (with appropriate expletive added), and he's just sore because I made out with his sister. "Who cares about WMD ? Bush said it was his potential to build them that was the threat....and in 5 years it could be too late." I don't believe much of what GW says, but I believed that. I didn't believe that Saddam could deploy within 45 minutes. I also believe that the Islamofascists are not only looking, but will eventually get WMD. "Blair hyped up the imminent threat to frighten his party." He is YOUR problem, Bush is ours. LOL "The fact is Saddam violated the UN ceasefire just as North Korea has done. What is the point of a ceasefire if they continue arming themselves ? Yes, well then tell the EU and Russia to stop selling arms to them. ;-) "The Allies should have crushed Saddam and drawn the Iraqi Army into a major killing zone to eradicate it and any survivors should have been put in huge camps in the desert until screened for a new Army." Unfortunately, they did not. So now the man is gone on the US dime— no thanks to the some-time "allies" like Germany and France. "Rumsfeld wanted to do it all on the cheap like the A-Team....a sort of Blitzkrieg among friends." Why don't you tell that to the American taxpayers? Perhaps the rest of the world should have helped? Perhaps they should help now! So far the rich Euros have refused to help. Peace, stability and prosperity in Iraq and the ME is very much in their interest. "Romulus, if you were a chick, I would be flirting with you at this point. I like how your brain functions man." That certainly makes sense. Water seeks it own level—like seeks like—birds of a feather and all that. (God save us from the fruitcake mutual admiration society!) ;-) "Thanks Mike Talisman, I like your posts....now Lilith is the amusing one, but they say to err is human; and to forgive is divine.......so I am almost condemned to forgive her these errant ways and aberrant thoughts......." Please, please, please, don't do THAT! I much prefer to stay a safe distance from you two "divine" pals. Holy cow! Two lost souls on the edge of sanity in a mutual admiration society. Lili Posted by: Lilith at December 10, 2003 09:38 PM"Holy cow! Two lost souls on the edge of sanity in a mutual admiration society." Lilith, we love you too you know. Just in a big-sister-that-is-always-beating-us-up kinda way. "Lilith, we love you too you know. Just in a big-sister-that-is-always-beating-us-up kinda way." Thanks anyway, Mikey. I'm not the "big sister" type. LOL Show— no— prove, to me where anything I have said is incorrect and I'll give. Don't go to Romy for advice though. He's not known for being too up on his facts as well as being er—limited in his view of the world, not to mention his powers of observations. ;-) Hey! The news over here is gloating about the administration's having cut the sometime-allies out of the spoils of war. Georgie still has not learned to play well with others. One wonders what it will take? No doubt thousands of US and Iraqi deaths. . . What will it take for "old" Europe to be something besides "old"? Will they morph into maturity? ;-) Lilith Posted by: Lilith at December 11, 2003 02:10 AMLilith my dear woman, you have a sense of humour ! Actually the EU does not sell weapons.....it would love to be a sovereign state but hopefully it will be stopped. France sells weapons, Germany sells parts, Britain no longer sells weapons to Iraq since Thatcher went and we wrote of £650 million. Rumsfeld wanted to spend money bribing Turkey; spend money buying eqipment; but not money on having full-time soldiers....that is where he is cheap. Those super Stealth bombers flew all that way to kill Saddam 4 times but he is supposedly alive and well........the huge orgy of cruise missiles were supposed to get him.......but now it is boots on the ground. Low tech nations cannot be occupied through hi-tech weapons....... Blair is ceasing to be our problem.....he will be gone soon. He is busy trying to ingratiate himself with Schroeder and Chirac at present......he is a sycophantic weirdo. Now Lilith, you won't be big sister so we shall have to treat you as little sister with freckles and braced teeth.....(and I was hoping for so much more !) and continue to train you in the ways of the world. Posted by: Romulus at December 11, 2003 11:35 AM |
