|
« Howard's way
Main |
November 11, 2003
The buddies at bay
Tony Blair has mounted an impassioned defence of next week's state visit by President Bush. The home truths he has told in these remarks (with the exception of his characteristically wrong-headed defence of 'old' Europe) will, however, only deepen the surrealist malevolence that now characterises everything to do with Iraq and America in Lewis Carroll's Britain. As Blair rightly said, the tremendous battle going on in Iraq against the Ba'athist remnant backed up by a variety of noxious Arab terror sponsors simply has to be won because of the very reason it is happening. Those terrorists and their patrons know that if Iraq becomes a stable, settled, prosperous and above all free country, their whole game plan for overthrowing the west takes a dive and their own regimes become threatened. As Blair observed: 'It is the battle of seminal importance for the early 21st century and it will define relations between the Muslim world and the West'. That is precisely why this war is still going on in Iraq. That is why it is unthinkable that it might be lost. That is why next week's demonstrations take on far more significance than a tiresome and inconvenient disruption. They are themselves a significant weapon against the west's war upon terror. They will be used as evidence that Bush and Blair are acting illegitimately and are on their own against the wishes of the majority of their people. They will be used, in short, to support tyranny, mass murder and fascism against those in the west who are fighting to defeat them. These demonstrations are likely to be huge. They will draw upon the public hysteria that is now fermented on any issue where sufficient numbers of highly motivated groups use the internet to spread propaganda and incitement and also to organise large movements of people across the globe. And alas, they will also draw upon the anti-Americanism and anti-Bushism that is now rampant in Britain -- even among conservative or apolitical folk. America has made very bad mistakes in Iraq. But the cause could not be more just, and the underlying objectives could not be more sound. It is critical that the west pulls together to win this thing. But Britain -- appeasement-minded, ignorant, prejudiced, gullible, decadent Britain -- has its head deep in the sand, while putting up a crude two-fingers to the two men who are trying vainly to convince them of the immeasurable stakes for the way of life the British public so cavalierly takes for granted. Posted by melanie at November 11, 2003
Comments
Fortunately,British folk dislike Europe more than they do America.And even more so when they will begin to see the "climate change" on that benighted side of the English channel.But we should not deign to give those Europeans refuge when they start pouring over here to this island of ours in a desperate bid to flee it.Nor should America. Posted by: Abe Loke at November 11, 2003 12:53 PMDoes the UK taxpaying public really need this stupid, unelected, failed businessman, born again christian neocon to be given a platform to spout his warmongering drivel at their expense ? NO !!!!!!!! Melanie Phillips, you write: Wow PR, intelligence is not your strong suit is it? First of all Bush is not a neo-con, neo-cons are former Democrats who have grown more conservative in their later years. Bush has always been a conservative. He was freely elected by a majority (rather slim) of the American people. He graduated with an MBA from Harvard, and got an MA at Yale. So he is hardly a stupid man. Do you have something against Christians? Your probably not keen on Jews either are you? Feel free to dislike the man, I am not totally enamored with him either. But trawling out all these rediculous and patently untrue facts about the man makes your argument looks positively retarded. In short grow up, get a brain and come back when you are able to make a coherent argument. Oh yes what poly does your degree come from then? Posted by: Andrew Ian Dodge at November 11, 2003 03:44 PM"Fortunately,British folk dislike Europe more than they do America" I hope you are correct. I fear that the growing tide of anti-Americanism will lead us into the euro. Posted by: abe at November 11, 2003 04:06 PM"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you "You have to look at the entire Bush Family in this context -- as if the "While opportunism isn't new in U.S. politics, never did so many in one family extract so many dollars from taxpayers as when George Bush senior was president a decade ago" -- David E. Scheim, author of Contract on America. "What you've got with Bush [George senior] is absolutely the largest number of siblings and children involved in what looks like a never-ending hustle." -- Republican pundit Kevin Philips Anyone in any doubt that Dubya is a lying, cheating criminal whose closest associates are other lying, cheating criminals should read these : http://www.thedubyareport.com/indepth_appt.html http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3308.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3255.htm Posted by: D. Horton at November 11, 2003 06:18 PMEvery heard of the phrase America rules, the rest of the world drools ? Has any else had enough of the blinkered UK sheep following this modern day Hitler? Stars and Stripes in every pie, what happens in the US happens here tomorrow? What has happened to British pride? We are told we would have lost WW2 if it hadn't been for the good ole Yanks, who actually only came to our aid after they themselves were threatened by the Japanese. We have become another American State, one more star for them to add to their flag. Posted by: Anastasia at November 11, 2003 06:27 PMAnyway peaceful protests is why the Human Rights Act *is* good for society. http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-rights/the-human-rights-act/articles/article-11.shtml The freedom of Association & Assembly is Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights which was incorporated in to UK law to become The Human Rigts Act 1998. It states: "Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Dumbya. Posted by: Anastasia at November 11, 2003 06:39 PMGrow up, Anastasia. Posted by: George Peery at November 11, 2003 08:02 PMCall for Britons to shout down Bush : MICHAEL Moore, author, filmmaker and satirical nemesis of George W Bush, urged Britons overnight to take to the streets by the tens of thousands to protest the US president's visit to London. "Bush has been using the British people now for the better half of a year as a cover essentially to say, 'See, it's not just us, the Brits are with us'" in Iraq, Moore told reporters at the offices of his British publisher Penguin. "You need to expose the lie just by your presence, and by showing the American people that in fact, the British people don't support this," argued the best-selling writer, documentary maker and political activist. "I think British citizens have a very important job helping us to remove Bush next year from office," he added. White House planners were reported overnight to be pressing British authorities to virtually shut down most of central London during Bush's visit, as opponents of the Iraq war line up a full program of big demonstrations. Last February an estimated 1 million people marched through London in the run-up to the US-led invasion of Iraq, in one of the biggest street protests ever seen in the capital. Bush arrives tomorrow to stay with Queen Elizabeth II as her guest at Buckingham Palace. He will also have talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, his staunchest ally in the showdown with Saddam Hussein. "I think Europeans like Americans as people. I think there is something you find charming about our, er, simpleness," he said, warming to the battery of microphones before him. "I'm on this tour to say: I'm not the only sane American. I'm one of tens of millions ... You just don't hear from us." Moore was bewildered as to why Blair, leader of the Labour Party, could be friends with the Republican president from Texas. "Blair's not an idiot. What's his excuse?" he asked. "I hope in my week here, somebody will tell me what is Blair getting out of this. What's he been promised? A job on the ranch after Bush is out of office?" Is anyone else slightly disturbed at the fervent hecktoring tone of those who seem to hate Bush? I have no idea if any of the 'facts' or arguments that they put up are correct, but I deeply distrust the hysterical tone in which it is all presented. Of course Michael Moore wants Bush out - he is a democrat, not an unbiased observer, like many in this country believe. If I want objective evidence against 'Dubya', I would not trust such a man with providing it! I agree with Melanie that such views are deeply couched in a sort of conspiracy paranoia, which is terribly reflective of an age in which people are desperately searching for something to believe. Now I'm not in favour of going back to a time when we deferred to all politicians or governments, but think objectively people - Is all this really likely? As for human rights, well nice idea, shame about the execution. Unfortunately the language of human rights is now all about the reasons to do nothing about abuses, rather than to take action. I live in fear of a world in which countries are so hamstrung by 'International law' and human rights that they are A) completely unable to provide for their own defence Sorry, I was going to comment but I'm too busy trying to hold my sides together that I split laughing at the references provided by D. Horton. It's the equivalent of a holocaust denier quoting David Irving... Posted by: Morgoth at November 11, 2003 11:26 PM'Now I'm not in favour of going back to a time when we deferred to all politicians or governments, but think objectively people - Is all this really likely?' Can you say 'Patriot Act' ? Erosion of citizen rights is happening right now in a democracy near you.
Whereas I live in fear of a world where I believe Bush and his neo-cons are likely to start a world war by their own stupidity. Morgoth "Whereas I live in fear of a world where I believe Bush and his neo-cons are likely to start a world war by their own stupidity". With whom,since the following rules most of the world out in military terms? "I live in a world where the US decides what defence most countries are allowed - and usually provides that defence - notable exceptions include Russia, China and NK". Ah! so the world war you envisage is with one or any combination of these three countries?No change there then,but isn't the Cold War supposed to be over?Doesn't the fact they have nuclear arsenals dim your seeming admiration.The way to go! stand up to the US! get the Bomb! The US must have been ecstatic when Kim il Fruitcake inherited the job from his father and do you really think that the US has had any say in who ruled China since Mao Tse-tung
Dictatorships actively supported by USA in recent years :
Leonid Kuchma in Ukraine. Welcome to The United States - the true leader of the free world.
Wow. Just wow. "Dictatorships actively supported by USA in recent years : This is a bad joke, right? And how many of these countries have we ceased support for? How many have we overthrown? Wow. Just wow. Please learn some history. Learn about foreign affairs. The ignorance is staggering. Posted by: anderson at November 12, 2003 04:29 AManderson There is no hope. They've grown up on a diet of anti-Americanism, fed to them by small minded nationalists and vengeance seeking Marxists who infest all levels of media and education. They are willing to believe and regurgitate any conspiracy theory, lie or half truth just as long as it satisfies their prejudices. They are juvenile in the extreme, much like a 14 yo who says she hates her father but will sleep under his roof and eat the food he provides at the table. I have no doubt that before I die the USA and Australia will have to sacrifice its young men once again save Europe from its own stupidity. "It is not possible to reason a man out of a position which he was never reasoned into" - Jonathon Swift Murph Posted by: Murph at November 12, 2003 05:44 AMAll those who denounce the US for supporting dictators in order to oppose worse dictators should not forget to denounce the worst, most egregious example of this practice, US support for a dictatorship so bad that it can hardly be matched in the long annals of history. I refer to the US support for the USSR in the war against Hitler. While you are at it don't forget to denounce US support for Communist China against the USSR in the 1970s and 1980s. which probably prevented the USSR from attacking China with nuclear weapons. But hey, that can't be correct, for the US is the fount of all evil, right? Posted by: Michael Lonie at November 12, 2003 05:57 AMHey Michael Don't hold your breath waiting a response to that one. Posted by: Murph at November 12, 2003 07:09 AMI've visited Britain and lived there on and off for over 50 years (made my first visit to grandparents as a 4 year old) so I've been able to watch the changes that have taken place since the end of WWII. I won't enumerate those changes but what I've done is sell my property, close my accounts and mail back my passport. "Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the slaves; A bit sad that the loony left teen trolls, the most ignorant generation in a hundred years, have discovered Ms Phillips' comments section. I'm just an old elitist, I suppose. Posted by: Dave F at November 12, 2003 12:35 PMI love it. Reasoned political comment about President Bush - from Michael Moore? Surely the Brits don't take this man seriously? His antics and mendacities have been so thoroughly fisked in the US that no-one with half a brain bothers to take any notice of him. I did like his comment about how the British could be important in defeating President Bush in the 2004 elections. The only way the president will fail of re-election is if the Democrats can find some way to allow the British to vote in US elections. It's not so far-fetched - they tried to win a victory for themselves the last time by manufacturing illegal votes, this is just a different way to do the same thing. I enjoyed the years I lived in Britain very much, but like Theodopoulos Pherecydes, I've given up on the place. It's like Madagascar - I know where it is, but it contains nothing of interest or importance, and is best ignored in favour of more important places. llater, llamas Posted by: llamas at November 12, 2003 01:09 PMTheodopoulos Pherecydes, llamas. Couldn't agree more. The decline of UK to 'third world' status, has been in progress for at least the past twenty years. But that is what you get when you have an inferior socialist type of education system. A pox on the place... Posted by: ernest young at November 12, 2003 01:37 PMSurely any comment that states "Bush and his neo-cons" actually means "Bush and his Jews." It is patently obvious to anyone who cares to watch that "Neo-Con" is a code word for Jew. I have heard no one trying to deny anti-Bushie the right to protest. Not allowing a particular route is not the same as censorship now is it? They do not have a right to riot endangering property and human life...which is of course what they want to do isn't it? Bet you terrorist/dictator appeasing types are proud of the fact that London is the prime target for Islamofascist terrorism according to a recent report. Nice to see that sucking up to Al Queda etc, doesn't actually make you any safer. Posted by: Andrew Ian Dodge at November 12, 2003 01:53 PMAmazing reaction from the pro-US cheerleaders above who refuse to accept that their country is responsible for destabilising most of the world with it's greedy, oil-grabbing, corrupt actions. M John, You believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe what I want to believe. Sounds like you are a Michael Moore fan. In which case I would suggest that it is time you gave up reading fairy tales. Posted by: ernest young at November 12, 2003 02:44 PMM. John wrote: 'Amazing reaction from the pro-US cheerleaders above who refuse to accept that their country is responsible for destabilising most of the world with it's greedy, oil-grabbing, corrupt actions. Oh, really? Oil-grabbing? Please tell us all which oil company, from which nation, had all of the advance contracts for Iraqi oil/gas production locked up? (Hint - it's not the US) Please tell us the exact number of barrels of Iraqi oil that the US government has 'grabbed' from Iraq since overthrowing the Hussein regime? Corrupt? Well, you'd have to define what you mean by 'corrupt'. US service members who looted Afghani/Iraqi valuables are presently languishing in the stockade - 'glasshouse' to you. The same cannot be said, incidentally, for UN bureaucrats caught doing the same things in Afghanistan. A senior US military officer is presently being boarded for a court-martial for the heinous offence of making threats to a prisoner under interrogation. The US is presently holding terrorist suspects in spartan accomodations in Cuba, but we might contrast that with the approach of the British Army to terrorist suspects in Ireland - a 9mm slug behind the ear was the preferred solution, as I recall. Corrupt? You decide. Greedy? The US is pouring out its treasure by the billions to expel the Hussein regime and build something other than a medieval death-cult in its place. The whole world will benefit from that expenditure, without having to lay out one thin dime of its own money. That's greedy? Economically bankrupt? You must have missed the latest economic growth figures. If you want an economically-bankrupt nation - think of France. Morally bankrupt? Well, you'd have to define that also. But, of the two nations (the UK and the US), which has the rising crime rates, and which has the falling crime rates? If we'd like to speak of morally-connected issues such as civil liberties and personal freedoms - in which nation is a prominent churchman being criminally investigated for speaking his mind on the moral questions surrounding homosexuality? (Hint - it's not the US). Destabilizing most of the world? Oh, yes, the Warsaw pact was so much more - stable. They probably made the trains run on time, too. Shame on those horrible Americans for destabilizing it right out of existence. The US Empire? It is to luagh. Which empire would that be? Coming from a presumed Brit, that's twice as funny! What you apparently just can't stomach is that when people are given a choice, they choose American-style economic and social freedoms over any other choice - including the dismal, failed, proto-socialist drivel which is rapidly taking Europe back to third-world status. Wake up, get used to it. llater, llamas Posted by: llamas at November 12, 2003 03:10 PMMaybe if a certain country had carved up the ME during its glory days and gave the countries logical borders, some of this could have been avoided. How come we're the ones to pay in blood to fix the messes you made? Posted by: Sandy P. at November 12, 2003 03:30 PMCoo, the Moonbats are out in force today. Drumming up courage to go on the "Hand Iraq back to Saddam" jaunt? Don't worry, Red Ken has proven he hasn't changed since his GLC days: he's holding a get-together for the protesters with taxpayers' money. Posted by: Harry Payne at November 12, 2003 04:06 PMPrima donna Bush is bringing an entourage of 700 with him to London - jeez, maybe he's trying to outdo Britney, LOL !
Last word! The country which is most inclusive of its minorities and provides the most opportunities for its citizens and in which opennes Dear Anastasia, America came to the aid of Britain through the lend lease program to arm and support Britain. The first American casualties of WWII were 100 men of the destroyer Reuben James toepedoed by a u-boat while escorting a convoy of supplies to Britain. That was October, 1941. Your invocation of a right to peaceful assembly is disengenuous. You clearly have no intent to allow those with a view different from yours to peacefully assemble. Posted by: Fred Boness at November 12, 2003 06:21 PMJust as a sidenote - I'm surprised - well, actually, I'm not - that Anastasia seriously quotes Al Martin. All anyone has to do is visit his web site (www.almartinraw.com) to quickly see what a raving moonbat he is. If all the conspiracy theories he hawks were laid end-to-end - I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Think David Icke, and you'll get the measure of Al Martin. But, of course, this sort of raving is uncritically lapped up by anti-Anericans and Bush haters. Any stick does to beat a dog with. llater, llamas Posted by: llamas at November 12, 2003 07:43 PMI expect that the marxoid-islamist bloc will be out in force next week and I equally expect that they will get nasty. On a broader point, the hostility to George Bush among socialists (both national and international) is reaching the point of psychosis. Has any other post-war politician caused the unhinging of quite so many people? Posted by: David Carr at November 13, 2003 12:49 AMNo, and I take it as a good sign for young George. Just wait until he wins the next election. Hopefully a few of the idiot-leftists will keel over and snuff it due to apolexy... Posted by: Morgoth at November 13, 2003 12:56 AMPM Blair is right when he states that this is the seminal war of the 21st century, the outcome of which will decide wether we continue to be free, tolerant and democratic societies or succumb to dhimmitude and sharia in the near future. Fortunately America is still confident that the banner of freedom and human rights that it carries are not just mere words but ideas that it is willing to fight and die for. I just dont understand people who pillory the US for supporting dictatorships while in the same breath oppose its actions in removing the despicable Taleban and the hideous Saddam from power. The US cannot solve all the worlds problems; Americans would not allow such a waste of American lives and treasure. But when the safety and security of the US and its allies becomes an issue, and if at the same time, the enemy also happens to be a brutal dictator, then that makes the political decison much easier. That is the way of real politics in a real world. As for Pres. Bush leading the world to war, well all I can say is that the war on the West was made abundantly clear on September 11, though it had never stopped since the 7th century.
Anastasia Will you and your cronies stay on the pavement. I don't think so. Posted by: Mike at November 13, 2003 01:52 AMNY Do you actually have an argument or is name calling the best you can come up with? Posted by: Murph at November 13, 2003 02:21 AMSadly, this is the Dodo generation,so cosseted, protected and living in their imaginary world,when some death cult blowns them into shreds they still won't have understood. Posted by: Peter at November 13, 2003 03:31 AM"...the hostility to George Bush among socialists (both national and international) is reaching the point of psychosis..." You said a mouthful there, David. Loonybiscuits. Utter loonybiscuits. Posted by: Baillie at November 13, 2003 05:34 AMPeter Too right. The most ridiculous example of which is Robert Fisk, who after having the shit kicked out of him and nearly being murdered simply for being an infidel, said he understood why his attackers wanted to kill him. Absolute suicidal lunacy. Posted by: Murph at November 13, 2003 06:34 AMI would point out, that while the US might have the patriot act (which was voted on by congress), people in the UK are soon to have to deal with identity cards. Also, thanks to EU rules about xenophobia, free speech in Europe doesn't exist. What's especially scary is that it doesn't apply to everyone - just certain people considered to be enemies of the state (or Political Correctness). I seem to recall a certain Brit who got into trouble for saying something like "I want the same rights as a gay muslim something something". But of course, he didn't, as he was arrested merely for saying that publically. Posted by: Jeremy at November 13, 2003 09:42 AMLeftists/socialists in the UK and Europe better beware of tying their fortunes with Islamists. Whenever Islamists have gained power, their first act is to execute Leftists, Athiests and sundry left leaning intellectuals. Ask any Iranian Lefty who managed to escape the firing squad. The followers of Marx, Engels and Lenin, have never been regarded as 'people of the book'.
All the other anti-moonbat points have already been made, but I'll just add that it's interesting to hear from Anastasia that there was no right to peaceful protest in Britain before the EU introduced it in 1998. Though its likely fruitless, lets debunk some of the myths that are the basis of the left's psychosis. (1) The US supported dictators, yes. This was largely Cold War expediency. You couldn't simply say change or else. They'd simply say see ya and sign on with the Soviets. That or be overthrown by Marxists. Bush actually made an important speech stating that 60 years of this policy in the ME was wrong. Of course this was met with almost universal scorn from Arabs and the Euro-left. (2) Neo-conservatives. Repaet after me - NEO-CONS ARE NOT ARCH RIGHT-WINGERS. They are former democrats who grew disillusioned with the left's handling of world affairs. As such, they see this as the right does, but don't necessarily sign on to all the social and religious conservatism of much of the right. So, they are for more liberal than most concervatives, not far-right extremists. (3.) The US is spending far more per capita in Iraq than it did through the Marshall Plan. Sure they should put back together what they destroyed, but they are also going far beyond that. This is not greed. It is the most generous reconstruction project in history. (4.) At the cost of a few hundred lives of its soldiers, the US freed more than 50 million in Afghanistan and Iraq from two of modern history's most brutal regimes. That is an amazing acheivement. For this Bush and Blair get psychotic hatred that is becoming more irrational by the day. You may have been opposed to it, but now that its done, what exactly do you want? The US to cut and run so that Iraq descends into deadly anarchy? Handover the reigns to France and the UN with their dreadful record at nation building? Step outside the box for a moment. You may have not agreed with the rationale or the method, but the result is tens of millions are undeniably better of now and will be much better off years from now. But who cares about that becuase you HATE BUSH and that is all that matters. Posted by: PH at November 13, 2003 05:02 PMOh, and let's debunk the Patriot Act. With all the shrill cries of the end of civil liberties and democracies, will someone please detail how democracy is dead? Pehaps you don't recognize is that the US is in a state of war - more asymetrical than traditional war - but war none the less. And, in such a condition, goverment's do need to take more stringent measures the protect their citizens. This does not mean dissent is silenced or opponents are undermined. It just means that their are fewer judicial boundaries to monitoring potential terrorists. I don't think that Michael Moore and his ilk have been slowed one bit by this supposed facist police state. Posted by: PH at November 13, 2003 05:06 PMSorry to piss on your ol' apple pie, but its pretty obvious that the US is economically and morally bancrupt. I really think we may be witnessing the last gasp of the US empire, so you guys had better make the most of it. "What has happened to British pride? So that's what this is really all about isn't it? Um, WWII was over almost 60 years ago. Posted by: Yehudit at November 16, 2003 04:47 AM |
